This hearty vegan stew uses tender portobello mushrooms in place of meat, along with potatoes and veggies simmered in a savory herbed red wine broth. You won't miss the meat in this hearty vegan version of classic beef stew!
I'm all about vegan comfort food recipes this winter, and this stew is no exception. This vegan beef stew was super cozy and delicious, and this is coming from someone who didn't even like beef stew in her omnivore days!
I think it was the beef part that I didn't like, because a bowl of steaming hot potatoes, veggies, and in this case, portobello mushrooms (in lieu of beef) in a savory red wine broth sounds pretty much like heaven to me.
Savory Seasonings
In addition to the herbs you'd normally find in beef stew (rosemary and thyme), I included a few ingredients to give it a savory flavor that might otherwise be lacking.
Marmite
One of the key ingredients to getting a super savory beef-stewy flavor out of this dish is Marmite. I hesitated to include this in the recipe, because I know lots of people will have to seek it out or order it online, so I made it optional.
What is Marmite? you may be asking. Marmite is a spread made from yeast extract. It has a very intense savory flavor. Some folks are fond of eating in toast (something I haven't been brave enough to try yet). It's totally vegan and great for adding flavor to recipes. It's an optional but highly recommended ingredient in this one.
Liquid Smoke
Liquid smoke is also optional in this recipe. I find it to be a pretty polarizing ingredient: some of us love it, some hate it! I'm one of those that love it, and I find it to be great for adding smoky, savory flavor to vegan recipes. If you hate it, leave it out. If you're not sure or have never tried it before, proceed with caution: just add a drop or two to your stew at a time and see what you think of the flavor.
Always keep in mind that with liquid smoke, a little bit goes a long way!
Red Wine
A great cook once told me never to add water to a recipe where I could instead add wine. I think that was pretty good advice. In this recipe red wine adds richness and intensity to the stew.
All of the alcohol should cook off if you let your stew simmer for the right amount of time. If you prefer to cook without alcohol, just leave the wine out.
How to Make Vegan Beef Stew
Start by heating up some oil in a large pot. Once the oil is hot, add your mushrooms. You'll want to let them sit and cook for a few minutes to achieve some browning. Then flip them and let them cook a few minutes more.
Veggies go in next! Add some onion, celery, and carrot. Sweat the veggies for a few minutes until they begin to soften up. Now add some garlic and let it cook for just a minute or so.
Flour is our thickener for this soup, and that's what will go in next. Sprinkle a bit of flour in at a time, stirring between each addition until it coats the veggies. Cook and stir the veggie and flour mixture for about a minute.
Now start adding broth, a bit at a time, making sure to stir and eliminate any lumps before the next addition. Once all the broth has been added, you can stir in some potato and herbs. Raise the heat and bring the stew to a boil.
Lower the heat and let the stew simmer until the potatoes are just tender. Now stir in some red wine, tomato paste, and marmite. Let the stew simmer until the veggies are very tender, the broth is thick, and all of the alcohol has cooked off (taste-test for this).
When the stew has finished simmering, take it off of the burner and season it with salt, pepper, and liquid smoke, if desired.
Vegan Stew FAQ & Tips
- This stew keeps well and the leftovers are great! Store them in a sealed container in the fridge for 3 or 4 days.
- Feel free to add veggies! It occurred to me just before I photographed this stew that peas would be a great addition. Try thawing some frozen peas and stirring them in during the last minute of cooking. You could also add some greens like spinach or kale, and let them simmer in the stew until they wilt.
- Can this stew be made gluten-free? I'm not sure, but I suspect cornstarch or arrowroot would be a good substitute for the flour. Make a slurry with either ingredient in some cold water and start pouring it in, just a bit at a time, when the stew is almost done. Continue adding your thickener unil the stew is as thick as you'd like it.
- Is there a substitute for the wine? You can simply leave it out if you prefer. Add some extra broth if the stew needs extra liquid, and a tablespoon or two more of tomato paste if the flavor is lacking.
- Want to add some protein to your stew? Try my beef-flavored seitan.
- Not all red wine is vegan. Check with Barnivore to ensure yours is!
More Comforting Vegan Soups & Stews
- Vegan Clam Chowder
- Vegetable Stew
- Classic Lentil Soup
- Vegan Irish Stew
- Vegan Chicken & Dumplings Stew
- Vegan Cream of Mushroom Soup
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Portobello Vegan Beef(less) Stew
This hearty vegan stew uses tender portobello mushrooms in place of meat, along with potatoes and veggies simmered in a savory herbed red wine broth. You won't miss the meat in this hearty vegan version of classic beef stew!
Ingredients
- 2 tablespoons olive oil
- 1 pound portobello or cremini mushrooms, cleaned and roughly chopped
- 1 large onion, diced
- 2 medium celery stalks, chopped
- 2 medium carrots, sliced
- 3 garlic cloves, minced
- ¼ cup all-purpose flour
- 4 cups vegetable broth
- 2 pounds red potatoes, cut into 1 to 2 inch chunks
- 2 tablespoons fresh thyme leaves
- 2 tablespoons finely chopped fresh rosemary
- 1 cup dry red wine
- 2 tablespoons tomato paste
- 1-2 teaspoons Marmite (optional, but highly recommended for savory flavor)
- ½ teaspoon liquid smoke, or to taste (optional)
- Salt and pepper to taste
Instructions
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Coat the bottom of a large pot with oil and place it over medium heat.
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Give the oil a minute to heat up, then add the mushrooms in an even layer. Let them cook for about 5 minutes, until lightly browned on the bottoms. Flip and cook for about 5 minutes more, until softened.
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Add the onion, celery, carrots and garlic. Cook everything until veggies begin to tenderize, about 10 minutes, stirring occasionally.
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Sprinkle in the flour, a bit at a time, stirring between additions to form a coating on the veggies. Cook the veggies and flour for about 1 minute, stirring constantly.
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Begin adding the broth, a bit at a time, stirring to eliminate any lumps that form from the flour. When all of the broth has been added, stir in the potatoes, thyme, and rosemary.
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Raise the heat and bring the liquid to a simmer. Lower the heat and allow it to simmer, uncovered, until the potatoes are just tender but still a bit undercooked, about 15 minutes stirring occasionally.
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Stir in the red wine, tomato paste and Marmite. Bring the stew back to a simmer. Allow the stew to simmer for about another 20 minute, stirring occasionally, until the broth is thick and the veggies are very tender.
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Remove the pot from heat and season the stew with liquid smoke, salt and pepper.
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Ladle into bowls and serve.
Recipe Notes
This is an older recipe from 2016 that I updated in 2020. If you made it before the update, you may have noticed that the instructions have changed a bit. In the original version I had you adding the wine and letting it reduce before adding the flour. I discovered recently that potatoes cook up softer and faster in the absence of wine, which is why it goes in later now. Feel free to stick with the original process if you prefer - just add the wine between steps 3 and 4, and let it simmer for 4 or 5 minutes to reduce.
Amelia Littlejohn says
Stew's are the best comforting, warming meals. I love the flavours you've chosen for this dish!
Amy says
Best stew ever ! Loved the flavors and the consistency - real comfort food. I added some nest noodles and it was gobbled up by the whole family- no marmite /smoke but still loved
Alissa Saenz says
Yay! I'm glad you liked it! Thanks Amy!
laura says
YES! I love that your recipes are made up of things I already have. Also Marmite is a great source of B12 which makes it even more magical :)
Sandra says
Looks fabulous!
Biggest Nige says
Marmite puts the uuumph back into being vegan, and as well as being extremely tasty Marmite has vitamin B12. Food for kings!
Jenn says
Alisa, this looks SO good!! I grew up eating beef stew...it was always so comforting. I can't even remember the last time I had it or even though about it honestly. But, my gosh, I MUST try this! My parents are coming in town this week and I might just make this for them!
annie says
Aw! I'm sorry about your broccoli. This stew looks fabulous, definitely worth hunting down some marmite for.
Kim says
Would miso be a good substitute for the marmite?
Alissa Saenz says
It might work. I'd try a tiny bit at a time to see what it does to the flavor. You could also just leave it out. It will still be tasty, just a bit less savory.
Ashley says
No, not really similar at all. Marmite taste like burnt veggie bullion. Some concentrated veggie bullion like "Better than Bullion" brand is close.
Tom says
Marmite, I don't know what this is. I count on Nutritional yeast for B-12.
I'll have to get some of this and give it a try!
Lake Villa Guatemala Eco-Vegan B&B says
I made this tonight and it was fabulous! I'm out of Marmite and I forgot to add the liquid smoke, and it was still amazing. The broth is so rich and flavorful (I used a miso broth).
I didn't have any thyme or rosemary so I used some basil, oregano, and sage.
This one is going into my regular menu rotation!
Alissa Saenz says
Awesome! I had a question about whether miso would work, so thanks for letting me know it worked for you. :) Glad you enjoyed this!!
Tom says
Never tried Marmite. Is it available locally?
Alissa Saenz says
Yup! Wegmans has it in the international foods aisle. It's awesome. :)
Jennifer says
Sometimes if you have an "english import" or "irish import" store in the area they carry marmite too. I know that seems more specific, but you never know when people will open a shop like that.
Alissa Saenz says
I actually live near a Wegmans, and they have that section, which is where I usually pick up my Marmite. :)
Carolyn Leone says
Whole Foods has Marmite.
Mary M. Martinez says
This looks so good!The perfect weekend dinner.Thank you
Alissa Saenz says
Thanks Mary!
Lady Lucas says
This looks delicious. I'm going to try it tonight. I may substitute the wine with dark beer... ;)
Alissa Saenz says
Ohhh!! Awesome idea! I'd love to hear how that works out!
Paul Stenton says
Works great with LBV Port.
Alissa Saenz says
Glad to hear it! Thanks for the recommendation!
Anna B says
This gorgeous stew has become a staple in our wee vegan household!
We use the Marmite trick for all of our pie fillings as well (the British kind, Marmite in Cherry pie might not be as scrumptious) and since we first bought a jar back in January, when we found this recipe, my boyfriend has become absolutely addicted and drinks Marmite in hot water as a broth.
Thanks so much for this lovely recipe.
Alissa Saenz says
Glad you're enjoying it! I love Marmite in savory dishes, and I've been meaning to make some savory pies this winter - I'll have to give it a try!
Lorna says
Just made this for our dinner, left the mushrooms out though and threw in lentils and butternut squash. Absolutely divine! Perfect recipe. Thank you!
Alissa Saenz says
Yay! Those additions sound delicious! Glad you enjoyed it!
Paul Stenton says
I threw out the carrot and used sweet potatoe. Had the same effect.
Lani Jay says
What an amazing recipe! I didn't have any marmite so I substituted with vegemite instead. This will definitely become a regular recipe for us this winter.
Alissa Saenz says
Awesome! Glad you're enjoying it. Thanks Lani!
Beth says
This was amazing! My omnivore husband declared it the best soup he's ever had! Totally a win! I found Marmite at Wegmans and used 2 tsp, magical! Forgot the liquid smoke but we aren't fans of that, it's so easy to overdo it. I wonder if smoke salt would work as a sub? Maybe next time. This made 11 cups, which is better for calorie counters, only 115 calories per cup, if made with no oil as I did. Thank you so much for sharing vthis delicious recipe!
Alissa Saenz says
Glad it was a hit! I think liquid smoke would work as a sub too - I have a jar in the back of the spice cabinet, and I keep forgetting to test it out in some of my recipes. Next time! Thanks Beth!
Kjersten says
I had never tried marmite until tonight and think it made this much closer to a beef stew flavor (having tried the broth prior to adding it) so I'd definitely recommend buying marmite. I ordered mine from Amazon. This recipe was very good, however, we felt that the liquid smoke was too overpowering so, next time, I'll make the soup without. When I made this, I used all of the veggies plus extra carrots, as well as some parsnips and turnips. At the end, I decided it needed something more, so I added a bit of onion powder, soy sauce and coconut sugar. My old, beloved (pre-vegan) Guiness Beef Stew recipe had a tablespoon of raisins and some caraway seeds in it so I had missed the slightly rich sweetness of that stew and felt like the addition of the soy sauce and sugar rounded it off. I would definitely make this again (without liquid smoke) and, someday, I may very well make a cross between this recipe and my old one, essentially a mushroom Guiness stew. I think with the addition of the marmite, I could pull it off without the beef. Thank you for sharing this recipe!
Alissa Saenz says
Glad you enjoyed it! Those adaptations sound wonderful. Also, I never thought of adding stout, but I bet it's delicious. Now I have to give that a try. :)
Mary Cuffari says
Tried this last night- it was amazing! I didn't use the liquid smoke or the Marmite. My husband said to put it in the favorites folder. Thanks!
Alissa Saenz says
Glad you both enjoyed it! Thanks so much Mary!
Stacie says
I made this today, it was delicious. I didn't have rosemary or liquid smoke but it was still amazing. Thank you!
Alissa Saenz says
Glad you liked it, even without a couple of ingredients! This recipe is very forgiving. :)
Kathleen says
Looks good! I'm going to try this out in my InstantPot
Alissa Saenz says
Thanks! I'd love to hear how it turns out!
Rhonda says
One thing I've been craving ever since giving up meat many years ago is beef stew. It had never occurred to me to look for vegetarian beef stew until the other day, when I chose this recipe from the search results. It is fabulous - so dark and rich and beef-broth-ish! My husband loved it, too. I tweaked it just a bit to my taste, mostly by adding more carrots (stew recipes never have enough carrots for me) and leaving out the liquid smoke. The Marmite (which I happen to like) really did make the difference in taste, although it was good even without it. This recipe will definitely be made again. Thanks!
Alissa Saenz says
This is definitely one that can be adapted to your individual tastes! Glad you both enjoyed it! Thanks Rhonda!
Kchill says
Add maybe a drop of liquid smoke... I was tasting the soup throughout the process (no marmite) and it tasted delicious, but once I added 1/2 tsb of liquid smoke it overpowered all of the delicious flavors the soup had going for it while I was tasting. throughout. For my taste it is much better without liquid smoke just add a bunch of cracks of pepper instead and its amazing.
Kate says
I wanted to share this recipe with my vegan friend, but she's allergic to tomatoes. What would be a good substitute for the tomato paste? Would cornstarch work?
Alissa Saenz says
Oh that's tough! I think since it's a small amount, your best bet would be to just leave it out. It adds some flavor but I think this will still be tasty without it!
Candy says
At the risk of appearing ignorant - what is Marmite and where can you purchase it?
Alissa Saenz says
It's a yeast product that's produced during beer brewing and has a super savory flavor. Vegemite is another brand of the same thing. Some supermarkets carry it in the international section. :)
cheryl says
My daughter shared this with me can't wait to make it is there anything I can substitute for the dry red wine?
Alissa Saenz says
I think you could leave it out and just use some extra veggie broth. I hope you enjoy it!
Adam says
This recipe sounds amazing, can’t wait to make it — I love marmite! My wife is vegetarian and this will be perfect for her. Bought all the ingredients today, plus some beefless tips, turnips, and cauliflower that I may add.
One question: I’m tempted to make it in the crock pot tomorrow. Is there any reason that’s inadvisable?
OR if you think that would work, are there any portions you would cook first on stove before adding to crock — or can I just dump all ingredients in at once and start it up? Same question for end — do marmite and liquid smoke need to be added after crockpot is done, or can I just add them with all ingredients at start in crock? No worries if you aren’t sure, I love a culinary experiment and would welcome your insights, even as guesses. Thank you so much!!
Alissa Saenz says
I think you'd be fine to throw everything in at once. You can saute the veggies on the stove first if you like (I think it adds to the flavor), but honestly I usually don't bother with that step when I make things in the slow cooker. I'd love to hear how it turns out!
Ana says
I was wondering if you could suggest a substitute for the liquid smoke? I have read that there are only tiny amounts of carcinogens in liquid smoke, but being pregnant and having a toddler, I would rather not risk it.
I followed the recipe to the T with the exception of the liquid smoke and everyone loved it! Thank you!
Alissa Saenz says
I'm glad it was a hit!! If you want to try it again with some smoky flavor you could add a bit of smoked salt or smoked paprika. :)
Rick D. says
Oh my goodness-what a PERFECT meail for this cold, New England winter day! Thank you!
Alissa Saenz says
I'm so glad you're enjoying it!! Thanks Rick!
Ken Schelberg says
Made the stew yesterday. Really great. I modified the veggie mix slightly, adding zucchini and corn and reduced the potatoes a bit. But otherwise followed the recipe carefully. This is DEFINITELY going in the rotation. Found the marmite in Gelson's (Los Angeles). It adds a wonderful flavor. Thanks so much for this. Ken
Alissa Saenz says
I'm so glad you enjoyed it!! And those sound like delicious modifications - you can really use all kinds of veggies in this one. :)
Melodie richardson says
This is probably one of the best beefless vegan beef soups I’ve had. I put in about a 1/2 cup of barley just because I love it so much but a carnivore wouldn’t miss the meat in this. Will make this again and again.
Alissa Saenz says
I'm so glad you're enjoying it!! Thanks Melodie!
Cindy says
I just made this and it was amazing! I didn't have vegemite so I used misogyny paste a couple tsps worked fine. Love the gravey the red wine makes it! This will be a go to for those cold winter days. Thank you for sharing!
Cindy says
Meant to put miso lol auto correct !
Alissa Saenz says
Haha!! I'm glad to hear that - misogyny paste sounds terrible! And super glad to hear you enjoyed the stew! Thanks so much Cindy!
Jazmin says
I made this substituting Apple cider vinegar and veggie stock for the red wine and it was pretty amazing! The only thing is that the liquid smoke was really strong, even when I put 1/4 teaspoon. I’ll leave it out next time cause this recipe was really making my kitchen smell good!
Tessa Bowater says
Lol!!!! Don't you just love auto correct 😂😂😂😂😂
larry says
I looked up Marmite and this is just an example of some of the comments on Marmite/Vegemite...... ""taste this...describe it" (hands him a small piece of bread with too much marmite on it)...
"Humm...wood in turpentine, a undertone of rotten fish, with a finish of burned oil filled electrical transformers with smoked Bakelite plastic". Then "give me some cigarette butts soaked in boiling water to gargle to get this taste out of my mouth!" ... I think for my own part I will simply stick with Liquid SMOKE.... MUCH LESS THREATENING... ;)
Alissa Saenz says
Lol! Well, I don't really like the taste of marmine on it's own, but it's fantastic for adding savory flavor to recipes. :) I've had lots of readers get good results with this one while leaving it out though, so I think just liquid smoke should be fine.
jenna says
I love snow AND marmite, so this is getting pinned for me :)
Anne says
OMG this was delicious! No Marmite, but will try to find some for nest time. My guests loved it. A definite keeper.
Alissa Saenz says
Awesome!! I'm so happy to hear that! Thanks Anne!
Laura Handly says
This was delicious. Left out the liquid smoke and marmite, added a bit more wine and a lot of herbs -- such a nice start of fall treat!
Alissa Saenz says
Yay! I'm glad it was a hit!
Kelly Stevens says
Made this for dinner tonight. Made the recipe exactly as written. It was delicious! Will definitely be making this again in the future. Thanks for another winner!
Alissa Saenz says
Yay!! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Jenna says
This was terrible. It was so bad I could not choke it down. I put it I a colander and washed off my potatoes to at least not waste them..
Alissa Saenz says
I'm sorry you didn't like it!
Kt says
What didn’t you like about it? I would like to make this but wondering if I should make some changes.
Sharon Marshfield says
This is a fabulous recipe! Absolutely adored in our family who love it when it comes up on menu plan! My husband says it's as good as his mum's - high praise indeed! Thanks for producing it!
Alissa Saenz says
That's awesome! I'm so glad it was a hit!
JEWEL LAMPHIER says
Just reading this recipe made my mouth water so I made it the other day. It was AMAZING!
I'm vegan, my husband isn't but he went nuts over it. Because of his Diabetes we are trying to find tasty and healthy substitutes for red meat. This really did the trick.
I didn't have the Marmite or the red wine so I substituted with Nutritional yeast and red vinegar. I think it was just right.
The gravy part of this is out of this world and it works up so easy and smooth. I really like the way this is put together and how the stew comes out so creamy and so hearty tasting.
The only other change I made, and it's strictly a personal preference for us, I added just a bit of unsweetened soy milk to lighten the gravy.
All in all, this was a delightful and satisfying stew and is one of our new faves! THANKS!
Alissa Saenz says
I'm so glad you enjoyed it! And I think adding some soy milk to make it a little creamy is a great idea. I might try that myself next time!
Cap'n Dave says
Just transferred it into the Crock Pot. And now, we wait! Just the thing for a late supper with a hunk of crusty baguette with vegan butter...and already it's smelling wonderful! I didn't have portobellos or creminis, so I made do with white button, but they were fresh and plump and quite flavorful after the initial sautée. Next time, I'll definitely go with creminis - that nutty flavor would really round this out nicely!
Dang!!! Marmite is EXPENSIVE!!! $5.59 for a little 125g jar? Yikes! I'm going to have to peruse Amazon and see if I can get that price down! But then, that's San Francisco for you!
Alissa Saenz says
I think white buttons should work totally fine in a pinch! I hope you enjoyed the stew. And yes, Marmite it quite pricey! That's actually cheaper than what I pay, but thankfully even a little jar lasts a long time. :)
Virginia says
Made this tonight and it was fabulous!!
Dark, rich and flavorful. The Marmite is a must! It really added that “Unami” perfection. I added a couple extra items. A handful of small green peas and a good amount of chopped scallion. This recipes a keeper!
Alissa Saenz says
Yay!! I'm so glad you enjoyed it! Sounds like a delicious meal!
Erin says
I don’t have marmite so I used vegan Worcestershire (Kroger brand) and it turned out great. I also just used Italian seasoning because I don’t have plain thyme or rosemary.
Alissa Saenz says
Wonderful! I'm so glad you enjoyed it!
Rachel Locey says
Good base, but WAY too much Rosemary & Thyme. Made it almost inedible for me. I made it primarily for a vegetarian friend, when I made Hungarian goulash for the rest of the group. His comment was "way too much of whatever spice was in there!" and he didn't finish it. (And I didn't even put in as much Rosemary as the recipe called for. I'm wondering if it was a typo, and should have been tsp instead of tablespoons?)
Next time I would change the spice profile. Instead, I would season like a Hungarian goulash, with a tablespoon of Hungarian paprika and half a teaspoon of Caraway seeds. Since people are asking where to get the Marmite, I got mine at World Market.
Alissa Saenz says
Did you by chance substitute dried spices? They're much stronger than fresh, so you need to cut way back (only use about one third) if substituting.
Joyce Layton says
This stew tastes great and is very filling. We do not miss the beef at all. When I heated the leftovers, I added some frozen corn and peas; the more veggies the better! I will feature my review of this recipe on my instagram account this week and will be sure to tag you.
Alissa Saenz says
Yay! I'm glad you like it! Thanks Joyce!
Caronne Whitham says
Thank you for the recipe idea. I followed the instructions to the letter, and made no alterations. The flavour components were all there, and the Marmite definitely did the trick. Unfortunately, my stew came out quite watery... More like a chunky soup than a stew. Also, I found the mushroom:potato ratio a bit out. In my opinion there should have been more mushrooms and less potatoes - especially since the mushrooms are the main ingredient (as suggested in the recipe title). Next time I will also use less veg stock.
Alecs says
Thank you for this yummy recipe! As I have some food restrictions, I used smoked paprika instead of marmite and liquid smoke, and it was well received my the family! I also used arrowroot starch instead of flour (however, that has to be added at the end of cooking). I think it's the way the mushrooms are cooked that gives this stew its unique flavour, thank you loads!
Alissa Saenz says
Awesome! I'm so glad it was a hit!!
Camille says
I see that you use a bit of flour as a thickener early in the cooking process. Is there a gluten-free option you could recommend? I was thinking of using corn starch.
Alissa Saenz says
I think cornstarch would work! I'd make a slurry by mixing it with some cold water and then add it towards the end of cooking - just a bit at a time until you get the thickness right.
Patrick Green says
I’ve made this several times. It is so very tasty and the reason that Marmite is now a pantry staple in my house. Your instructions are clear and I love a recipe that works the first time. Thanks!
Alissa Saenz says
Awesome! I'm so glad you're enjoying it! Thanks Patrick!
Kerrie says
Made this 2 weeks ago and froze the leftovers.
Just ate the last portion and it was even better than I remembered. Will be making and sharing this recipe it was so tasty and my husband cleaned his plate to.... Winner
Alissa Saenz says
So glad you liked it, and glad to hear that it's freezer friendly!
Bill says
Maybe I cooked it wrong, the taste of rosemary is overwhelming even though I checked the measurement twice. It has way too much celery, maybe you meant two sticks and not stalks
Alissa Saenz says
Sorry to hear that! Did you by chance substitute dried rosemary for fresh? Dried is much more intense and would probably be overpowering. I did mean two stalks - did you interpret that as two bunches? That would be way too much.